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Post by KevinSaunders on Apr 17, 2004 7:19:22 GMT 1
Congratulations to everyone in the Midlands - you all seem to be doing a wonderful job bringing the pagan community together up there. I might even find time to start a branch here in Glastonbury if I find the time.
One thing that concerns me is the over-emphasis on warnings about working skyclad. I fully appreciate that it is necessary to make people aware that they should be cautious, but the advice on this site seems to go completely over the top and almost make it sound like those of us who do prefer to work skyclad are a bunch of pervs. Maybe its more to do with the inhibitions of the author, but please don't overdo it otherwise it will only alienate those of us who follow traditions closer to the roots of modern Wicca.
Keep up the good work.
Blessings, Kev
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Skyclad
Apr 17, 2004 13:32:00 GMT 1
Post by admin on Apr 17, 2004 13:32:00 GMT 1
Congratulations to everyone in the Midlands - you all seem to be doing a wonderful job bringing the pagan community together up there. Hi Kevin Welcome to the board and thank you for your kind comments. I'm the author and no it's nothing to do with my inhibitions - I also work skyclad. That section of the site is aimed at novices and vulnerable people, the sort of people who can get taken advantage of by the shady types at the fringes of the pagan community. I think those who are sensible and not at risk are able to make up their own minds about whether they wish to join a skyclad group or not. Regards. Rhiannon
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sam
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Skyclad
Apr 18, 2004 14:12:50 GMT 1
Post by sam on Apr 18, 2004 14:12:50 GMT 1
hi kevin i too have to say that i also agree that the whole 'skyclad' thing was just another invention of gerald gardner and thus do not work skyclad. i cannot for one second beleive that my ancestors used to run around naked especially with the amount of persecution that was around in those times and the other reason it just being to damn cold to do so i do work in a, as i like to call it, my full witchy attire, but only then this has been quite a recent thing. i have only been practising for 4 years you see but in that time i have come to recognise what is right and what is not right for me. i have a lot of thanks for the pa because they are brilliant at warning new people to the ways of the old, weather they be young or old, of possible dangers that are abound in birmingham and if it wasn't for the pa we would not know of such people! and beleive me they exist i too have come across such persons! bb sam
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Skyclad
Apr 18, 2004 17:26:18 GMT 1
Post by Bloodstone on Apr 18, 2004 17:26:18 GMT 1
Sam. Our celtic ancestors used to go into battle naked.
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Skyclad
Apr 18, 2004 22:10:52 GMT 1
Post by Bloodstone on Apr 18, 2004 22:10:52 GMT 1
Going into battle to scare the bejaybers out of your enemy counts for nothing if some purv of dubious and bogus lineage tells some young and trusting woman that it only works if you get your kit off! If you want to equate what we do now with the ancient celts then that is laughable! ;D Morco Tunstal Hey Marco. I'm NOT implying that working skyclad is in ANY way the same as our celtic forbears going into battle naked. I was merely replying to A specific point. i.e that sam said that she could not imagine our ancestors running around naked. Our Celtic ancestors DID go into battle naked. That is a documented fact. Blessed be Bloodstone
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sam
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Skyclad
Apr 18, 2004 23:00:41 GMT 1
Post by sam on Apr 18, 2004 23:00:41 GMT 1
Hey Marco. I'm NOT implying that working skyclad is in ANY way the same as our celtic forbears going into battle naked. I was merely replying to A specific point. i.e that sam said that she could not imagine our ancestors running around naked. Our Celtic ancestors DID go into battle naked. That is a documented fact. Blessed be Bloodstone i don't dispute this for one second bs but what i meant was like between the 9th and 19th century. and i also meant naked in ritual as well. bb sam
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Post by him on Apr 19, 2004 0:37:56 GMT 1
the argument for going skyclad always seems to miss the point, Why should we go skyclad ?When should we go skyclad?Do you need to go skyclad to work in the craft? Surely these should be the questions being asked and answered ? Working Skyclad is normaly done within the framework of a coven but this doesn't mean that all covens work skyclad. Have some Wiccans forgotten thier roots? The fact that Geralds " cottage" was inside a nudist camp and that for his coven to meet they would have had to join the camp and go 'skyclad 'to gain admittance may have something to do with it. Maybe the true meaning of 'Perfect love and perfect trust' is quite often forgoten in todays new age? A lot of people do not feel at ease working skyclad and should be honest with themselves and look for other groups that are not skyclad.
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Post by admin on Apr 19, 2004 8:41:24 GMT 1
Well skyclad is always a good one for getting a discussion going!!!
Historically there is evidence of witches practicing skyclad, it is mentioned in Aradia, which was published 1899. There is also an Italian woodcarving (sorry I don't have the reference with me at the moment) which was carved around the 18th century, which shows 3 witches, naked, but with three different hairstyles to indicate their ranks.
Having said that, going skyclad is definitely better in Italy than in Britain.
Him (whoever you are) also raises some good points. I think it's great to ask questions like that. Why do we work skyclad? When is it not appropriate and when is it appropriate. Some covens only use it for initiations or Sabbats, others are always skyclad. Is it possible to be skyclad if you're working indoors? I would say it isn't possible but that's my opinion.
"Perfect love and perfect trust" does definitely seem to be forgotten in this day and age and finding a coven where it exists is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
bb Rhiannon
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Skyclad
Apr 19, 2004 19:42:29 GMT 1
Post by morco on Apr 19, 2004 19:42:29 GMT 1
Dearest Bloodstone?
When did I say that the Celts did "not" go into battle naked?
The point was that just because they did it does not make it right for some perv to pull the wool over some poor souls eyes by saying that skyclad is the only way!
most do not work skyclad. most have no expierence of coven working. and there are many that would not know perfect love and perfect trust if it gnawed on their backsides?
If you have the ability then skyclad becomes irrelevant!
MORCO
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Skyclad
Apr 19, 2004 21:10:06 GMT 1
Post by Bloodstone on Apr 19, 2004 21:10:06 GMT 1
Dearest Bloodstone? When did I say that the Celts did "not" go into battle naked? The point was that just because they did it does not make it right for some perv to pull the wool over some poor souls eyes by saying that skyclad is the only way! most do not work skyclad. most have no expierence of coven working. and there are many that would not know perfect love and perfect trust if it gnawed on their backsides? If you have the ability then skyclad becomes irrelevant! MORCO Hello Marco. The point about Celts going into battle naked was is reply to a remark in one of sams posts. In which she said she coldn't imagine our anchestors running around naked. She has since been on to explain that she was reffering to a different period in our history You wrote: "The point was that just because they did it does not make it right for some perv to pull the wool over some poor souls eyes by saying that skyclad is the only way!" Could you please quote me the part of my message which implied this. I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to clear up this misundersatnding. Of course no one wnats to get into a situation which they may find uncomfortable, or even dangerous. Blessed be Bloodstone
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Skyclad
Apr 20, 2004 16:23:49 GMT 1
Post by Morco on Apr 20, 2004 16:23:49 GMT 1
The thread that I was refering to was about the so called necessity (or not) to work skyclad and not that ancient peoples went into battle naked! The point that I try to get accross is there are a lot of "enlightened souls" in the Pagan world who defend things that they do not in reality know if they are true or not, they just take it at face value I have heard the same argument that Rhiannon made about the wood cuts and published pictures before, but for many many years there have been countless publications and even eye witness accounts of "Flying Witches" on their broomsticks and we all know this to be untrue! How many times has any one heard of or read or seen "woodcuts" of Sea monsters again we know that this is also not true? so a picture by a Christian minister in a book showing naked Witches in England does not automatically proove that they did run around naked in their rites ? MORCO The Truth Hurts
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Skyclad
Apr 20, 2004 16:45:37 GMT 1
Post by Rhiannon on Apr 20, 2004 16:45:37 GMT 1
There are historical accounts of Italian witches being naked, but as Morco says, and I can't think of any either, no English accounts. Modern day Wicca borrows heavily from the Gospel of Aradia and the Italian tradition, and of course, Gardner was a naturist, so I think it's quite obvious where the modern day Wiccan practice comes from. Most of the excuses for practicing skyclad have huge holes in them - stopping power flowing, making people equal, etc. I see it as empowering because it involves the perfect trust. Having said that I've never been unfortunate enough to work naked with perves (unless you count Martin ) I've been informed by Traditional witches that skyclad is extremely rare in Traditional Witchcraft covens.
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Skyclad
Apr 20, 2004 18:07:31 GMT 1
Post by Bloodstone on Apr 20, 2004 18:07:31 GMT 1
Hello P.A.
Let me just clear this up a mo!
Morco - You said
"The thread that I was refering to was about the so called necessity (or not) to work skyclad and not that ancient peoples went into battle naked!"
I've read this thead through three times mate. I can't find the bit where I've said it's "nessecary" to work skyclad. I certainly dont believe it is. My coment about Celtic battle tradions was merley a reply to sams remark. (as I've said).
Working skyclad - Personnally I would love to work skyclad more. I feel that removing the trapping of rank, insignia, etc can bring a greater connectivity to the elements and more importantlrey to ourselves. But that is not to say that working in robes etc is wrong.
But It is as kevin says a shame that the traditon of working skyclad is looked down uopn by some, of course there is need for caution. I have no doubts that there are...."pervs" out there.... It is up to us all to be vigilant, but also not to go over the top.
Morco said - "So a picture by a Christian minister in a book showing naked Witches in England does not automatically proove that they did run around naked in their rites ?"
Your right here Moroco, But it also dosn't mean that if people enjoy working skyclad that they shouldn't continue to do so. It also dosn't mean that witches in there rites didn't work skyclad. Lack of evidence is not evidence.
I hope this makes sence, I've gotta dash now. loads to do this eveing.
Blessed be.
Bloodstone
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Skyclad
Apr 20, 2004 19:47:01 GMT 1
Post by CCStoop on Apr 20, 2004 19:47:01 GMT 1
Hi Truth be told, it's too bloody cold to work skyclad and if more people went skyclad you'd put the ceremonial robe manufacturers out of business What matters is what is inside not outside, I go skyclad all the time in the shower, apart from the snorkel and flippers ofcourse CCStoop©
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sam
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Skyclad
Apr 20, 2004 23:04:38 GMT 1
Post by sam on Apr 20, 2004 23:04:38 GMT 1
I've been informed by Traditional witches that skyclad is extremely rare in Traditional Witchcraft covens. and this is one of the reasons why i tend to lean towards this path
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