|
|
Post by IAN on May 7, 2004 19:15:19 GMT 1
I would personally like to see more unity within the whole of the local Pagan community, for example open rituals (not everyones cup of tea, i except) but for there to be only 20 people turn up i find a little dissappointing, so come on lets put the unity back into the community, as we are meant to do.
There is also far to much bitchcraft and in fighting within the different paths/groups/community as a whole.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaxom on May 7, 2004 20:08:29 GMT 1
The last open ritual that was advertised here in Wales also involved an invite to the press an tv crews.
NOT my idea of spiritual event
open ritual = good
three ring circus with film crew = bad
|
|
sam
New Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by sam on May 7, 2004 22:16:41 GMT 1
hi ian  i would have given anything to have been at the last open ritual but as you know unfortunately my life has been turned upside down with my partners new job.  this made it impossible for me to do anything really for beltane.  i couldn't go on the camp and i couldn't go to the ritual simply because i've got the kids to look after and there isn't anyone that can help me look after them except my bloke! as you know i have always been present at many open rituals and yes it is shame that there isn't the same unity that we had before. hopefully i'll be at the next one, but i can promise  hopefully i shall see you at the next moot. bb sam |
|
|
|
Post by eliphaslevi on May 8, 2004 9:05:49 GMT 1
Unity is a great ideal but as for the Pagan community as a whole seems totally out of reach! Why? Because a lot of people end up living a lie "An it harm none?" becomes the group view but in truth is just a facade for the in fighting and back stabbing amongst individuals! Its sort of a "Flavour of the month" Paganism/Witchcraft "Oh So & So is really nice" and " yes I agree with a lot of what you say" then " Well I think your wrong on that one" which turns too "They hav`nt got a clue" and "What a load of balls" alliances are formed and then ruined and then the "I am just friendly with such `n` such cos he hates So & So kicks in and it goes on and on and on! From my experience of the Pagan community as a whole very few can really be trusted not to resort to "Bitchcraft" at the slightest provocation and those who shout the loudest are the least likley to want to stop it!  |
|
|
|
Post by phoenixthorn on May 8, 2004 13:01:31 GMT 1
How can you have unity in an un-unified institution such as paganism. With so many different paths this is impossible. Howerver a greater co-operation , communication and support structure is needed. Heathens and Wiccans dancing around a maypole in unity? No.
All paths of paganism talking to each other and supporting each others beliefs? Now theres an idea.
Wassail
Phoenix
|
|
|
|
Post by IAN on May 8, 2004 23:08:16 GMT 1
I tend to agree that it is out of reach for the majority of the pagan community, within the p.a there is unity between most, but there are a few exceptions, unfortunately! Yeah but they tend to cause an awful lot of shit before they walk away and say 'oh well i didn't really believe in the things that they were saying anyway'. But the problem is people believe the lies that they spread while they are around! From a personal point of view if i upset people by speaking the truth then thats tough shit, i wont stop speaking my mind just as i'm sure you won't (reading some of your threads, you are not affraid to speak your mind either), if i agree with someone i will say so if i think its bolloxs i'll tell them as much DEFINATELY! But if people want to bitch what can you do? Sad really.  |
|
|
|
Post by admin on May 10, 2004 9:54:50 GMT 1
Well I consider the "An it harm none" part of the Wiccan Rede to be a piece of trite placation to the masses. Hundreds of fluffies running around going "look - we're harmless, our rede says "An it harm none" so we must be okay too, please like us". If people spent more time grounding and less time wittering then perhaps we could move past the bitchcraft and onto doing the work and growing. My own theory is that we have so much bitchcraft because everyone wants to be top dog, whether that be because they have more friends, more influence, more power than other people. We can't all be top dog so we end up with infighting. In any other organisation you need to actually be good at something to succeed, in paganism that's not the case, backbiting and political bitchcraft mean that anyone has the potential to be top dog regardless of ability. And of course, there's a never ending supply of newbies who can be impressed with a bit of mysteriousness, billowing robes and pentacles the size of dustbin lids. It seems to me that those who actually have the most ability are those that are unsung, those that we only hear about in whispers and stories, not those that are plasted all over the internet or "famous" authors. (I use the word "famous" advisedly because being famous within paganism and famous in the mundane world are two very different things). Of course, there's also the problem that on a Sunday you can be "Grand High Lady Queen Poobah of the Sacred Covens of the Atlantis Unicorn" but on Monday you're back to being plain old boring worker. Grounding, but incredibly bruising to the ego. No wonder we spend all our time trying to make ourselves feel better by vying for position. Anyway, bitchcraft will always be around within paganism, we're human, we will always be human with human faults. And whilst those who excel in bitchcraft might think that they are top dog, it's those that are quietly getting on with the work who are the ones who have the ear of the Gods. bb Rhiannon |
|
|
|
Post by poshfrock on May 22, 2004 21:59:44 GMT 1
i agree that it would be wonderful if the pagan comunity could unite and work together.
the "bitchcraft" is a waste of time and energy.
it is even more so when people "imagine" that friends will stab them in the back with nothing to gain.
false aligations are a terrible thing to all involved.
it causes splits that can never be mended.
we should be working to unit not part the pagan community.
Bright blessing to all with a good heart.
|
|
sam
New Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by sam on May 23, 2004 12:04:51 GMT 1
i'm afraid i am another who wishes that all his bitchcraft would just get knocked on the head, what is it acheiving anyway bb sam |
|
Rhiannon
Spends too much time here
Posts: 196
|
Post by Rhiannon on May 24, 2004 9:00:53 GMT 1
Not quite sure where this thread is going but if people want to wash dirty laundry in public I'll be forced to put my admin hat on. Firstly, we need to define what bitchcraft is and isn't. If someone has a problem with someone and states it, that is not bitchcraft. If someone tells lies about someone, or repeats something they've said in such a way that they know will cause people's hackles to rise, or repeats something someone has said and misses some parts out to suit their own agenda, that is bitchcraft. If someone comments that they don't like something about a moot that is not a personal attack on the moot organiser, that is a comment about the moot, and shouldn't be taken personally by the moot organisers or the moot regulars. As often is said when giving advice on how to put together an internet post, discuss the issue, not the person. I think many people take comments far too personally and we end up with misunderstandings and anger. I think it's great that we are honest with ourselves and others. The one thing I really hate is when you get someone who is all peace, love and light on the outside and as soon as you scratch the surface you get the meanest, nastiest, most bitter twisted people out there. Honesty with ourselves and with others is so important. Remember, often the only thing we have in common with other people within the Pagan community is a shared umbrella term for our belief system. That means that we don't have to love (or like) everybody else. We should however, learn to be tolerant, to accept that people sometimes say things they don't mean, that words get twisted and taken the wrong way. Emails and the internet are great for sharing information, they can also lead to much disinformation and misunderstanding. Without the 90% of communication that happens visually face to face, words are often taken out of context, people read things into things that aren't there and egos get dented. Surely all our egos are big enough to cope with a few dents  love, light, and cuddly fluffy brightest blessings Rhiannon |
|
|
|
Post by brian on May 24, 2004 12:58:17 GMT 1
Reading this saddens me. I am (fairly) new to the Pagan path , having been a Christian for 50+ years and finally got sick of the hypocrosy & "bitchiness" in the so-called "love thy neighbour" Christian faith. Muslims can't agree on which version of Islam is right. Have we now got in-fighting amongst Pagans ? Whilst I don't follow Wicca/ Witchcraft I would respect the beliefs of those that do. I THOUGHT that whatever one's path , be it Wicca, Druid, Norse, shaman, or other that one was welcome under the Pagan umbrella. Was I wrong ? Maybe being solitarty and abandoning all these sites is the best option. Martin said to me "whatever floats your boat". Maybe he & Rhiannon are also in the minority with these thoughts. |
|
Rhiannon
Spends too much time here
Posts: 196
|
Post by Rhiannon on May 24, 2004 13:33:42 GMT 1
I think it can be a shock to realise that pagans are just normal human beings with the same intolerances, internal anger, hopes, fears and dreams as everybody else. It would be great if we all lived in peace, understanding and tolerance at all times, but as human beings we are prone to self-centred, selfish and nasty behaviour to others, regardless of whether they are pagan or not. Perhaps we need to learn to forgive each other for being human and fallible? bb Rhiannon *goes off humming 1960s hippy tunes*  |
|
|
|
Post by ursus on May 24, 2004 15:53:10 GMT 1
In an ideal world those who are responsible for causing the "Bitchcraft" should realize it only causes more of the same............ but???
This is not the ideal world that we all should aspire to create but a frail human apology for one!
|
|
|
|
Post by IAN on May 24, 2004 21:57:57 GMT 1
I think i can safely say that the problems within the pagan community are common knowledge, if it is left to simply carry on as it is, with people being allowed to spread gossip and half truths then the whole community will implode! |
|
|
|
Post by phoenixthorn on May 24, 2004 23:12:44 GMT 1
I think thats a bit dramatic!
Sure its not nice to be on the end of negative comments but please remember that this is a natural phenomena. People try to make others look small to either cover up their own flaws or for political spin. It is not linked to paganism but also paganism isnt free from its influence.
Simply put: Whether we are Pagan, Hindu, Christian or sikh, whether we are High Priest/Lord of Gurus - we are all people. People have flaws. The world isnt going to end because one person slates another person. There are always going to be people wanting to oust those in 'power' to further themselves but this doesnt mean the end for Paganism.
'Bitchcraft' doesnt exist per se. It is not distinct or different from behaviour within other social groups.
It has always occured and will always occur.
Dont let it get to you.
Wassail,
Phoenix
|
|
this made it impossible for me to do anything really for beltane. 
i couldn't go on the camp and i couldn't go to the ritual simply because i've got the kids to look after and there isn't anyone that can help me look after them except my bloke!
