Stonehenge Visit - the new rules

[admin]

Hi All

I've just been in discussion with English Heritage about visiting the Stones. Unfortunately as it's no longer me organising it, whoever decides to take over will need to start from scratch.

The form for access is available on the English Heritage website. You will need to be quick as dates around the Solstice are very popular.

If anyone does want to take on organising a visit, then I am happy to advise and help in any way I can.

Rhiannon

[phil]

Hi Rhiannon,

I am prepared to organise the stonehenge visit if you can help me.

Who do we book the visit for,is it ok to say we used to be the P A etc?

[admin]

Hi Phil, Hopefully some sort of name will be forthcoming, but you could just have a nameless group with yourself as the contact. The form is really easy to fill in and you can post it or fax it down to English Heritage and they will get back to you. Of course you are welcome to say that you have been down there before on those events organised by the PA as we have always had a really good relationship with EH.

Rhiannon

[poshfrock]

So what does that mean Rhiannon? have you booked the stones for you and Martin? if you have, have you used the name PA or have you just booked as yourself?

Have you informed them that if anyone tries to book the stones as the PA, it no longer exists as any thing to do with You and Martin?

I've just been in discussion with English Heritage about visiting the Stones. Unfortunately as it's no longer me organizing it, whoever decides to take over will need to start from scratch.

Hi Phil, Hopefully some sort of name will be forthcoming, but you could just have a nameless group with yourself as the contact

Is this what this section above in red means?

That basically you have contacted English Heritage and informed them, that as you and Martin are no longer part of the group who still meet under the name of the PA, you consider the name and the group obsolete and no longer wish any connection to be made with either your personal names or that of the title PA?


Have you informed them of these facts and told them that if anyone other than you and Martin contacts them using the name PA B'ham, then it should not be accepted and the people informed must make a booking in another name independently?

I think that's correct isn't it? or have I miss read and miss understood what you have wrote?

Basically, to inform people on the board that they are more than welcome to book the stones if they wish, as is their right. but do not try booking in the name of the PA??

Please clarify if I am correct in my understanding as I do get things wrong on occasion

Posh

[admin]

Feb 22, 2009 0:36:35 GMT 1 poshfrock said:

So what does that mean Rhiannon? have you booked the stones for you and Martin? if you have, have you used the name PA or have you just booked as yourself?

I have informed EH that the Pagan Association was closed by Martin so we will not be booking this year. I also informed them that the Birmingham pagans were forming a new organisation who would likely be in touch to arrange a visit. It was EH themselves who said that the new group would need to start from scratch.

I've just been in discussion with English Heritage about visiting the Stones. Unfortunately as it's no longer me organizing it, whoever decides to take over will need to start from scratch.

Hi Phil, Hopefully some sort of name will be forthcoming, but you could just have a nameless group with yourself as the contact

That basically you have contacted English Heritage and informed them, that as you and Martin are no longer part of the group who still meet under the name of the PA, you consider the name and the group obsolete and no longer wish any connection to be made with either your personal names or that of the title PA?

No.

Have you informed them of these facts and told them that if anyone other than you and Martin contacts them using the name PA B'ham, then it should not be accepted and the people informed must make a booking in another name independently?

I think that's correct isn't it? or have I miss read and miss understood what you have wrote?

Basically, to inform people on the board that they are more than welcome to book the stones if they wish, as is their right. but do not try booking in the name of the PA??

No.

Please clarify if I am correct in my understanding as I do get things wrong on occasion

Posh

Quite wrong

[poshfrock]

ok

[ian]

Seems like a case of 'I've had enough so I'm taking my ball and going home!'

I always thought the PA was about the whole of the community and that things, events etc, no matter who they were booked by, were booked under the name of the PA!

[admin]

Feb 22, 2009 16:51:11 GMT 1 ian said:

Seems like a case of 'I've had enough so I'm taking my ball and going home!'

I always thought the PA was about the whole of the community and that things, events etc, no matter who they were booked by, were booked under the name of the PA!

Unfortunately that's not how English Heritage see the situation, and they're the ones who make the rules, not me They are the ones who have said that the new person/organisation will need to form a new relationship, not me It's worth remembering though, that English Heritage have always been very friendly and approachable, and very supportive of our visits, so I'm sure that whoever else decides to organise this (Phil?) will soon build an equally good relationship.

Rhiannon

[ian]

The point that it seems to me that is being missed here though, is that the good relationship has already been built, by the PA and EH, are you seriously telling me that when you approached EH to book the stones for the first time, you approached them as Rhiannon B T or B Williams?
No of course you didn't you approached them as Rhiannon from the Pagan Association UK, thus putting the name of the PA into the good reckonning of those at EH.

This will now, as you have said yourself, have to be started again from fresh.

All that was needed to be done, was for you, when you contacted EH, to say that you as the PA would no longer be requiring personal / private access to the stones, was to instead say that someone else would now be approaching them from within the group that made up the PA.

[admin]

Feb 22, 2009 17:19:02 GMT 1 ian said:

All that was needed to be done, was for you, when you contacted EH, to say that you as the PA would no longer be requiring personal / private access to the stones, was to instead say that someone else would now be approaching them from within the group that made up the PA.

Which is exactly what I told them. I said that the Pagan Association as we ran it had ceased to exist but that many of the same Birmingham pagans would be starting a new organisation. How many times do I have to state that it was English Heritage who made the rules and stipulations, not me.

But I am niggled that everyone is taking this in a negative manner. Isn't it blatantly obvious that personal relationships have to be built up ......... personally! The English Heritage people, as I have said, are incredibly personable and helpful, and respectful of our wishes to have sacred time within the Stones. As long as the person who takes over the organising is polite and respectful then there will be no issues at all. So why get bothered about English Heritage requirements? There really is no need. They have been nothing short of marvellous to us in the past, and I see no reason why they will not continue to be marvellous to whoever takes this over.

Rhiannon

[admin]

hello this is Martin,
English Heritage are the people who you have to contact about access to stone henge not rant at Rhiannon or myself as to what access you may or may not get.

The Pa as was does not exist and as such would not be requesting access to the stones. English Heritage advised us that any new pagan organizations that would be requesting access to stone henge would have to introduce themselves and be put on the list,we did however point out that there is a very active and responsible pagan scene in the west mids and that there has never been any problems with previous visits, they seemed quite happy with this.

Yes Rhiannon did contact English Heritage on the Pa's behalf but as I said the Pa that was, no longer exists and if its suggested that any other Birmingham based pagan organization that is going to apply for access needs a leg up from the ex Pa admin, then you are doing a disservice to the integrity of the such an organization.

We have no say in who can or who can not gain access to Stone Henge that is entirely at the discretion of English Heritage, a good word has been put in for Birmingham Pagans if your not happy with that go rant and moan at English Heritage not us.
Bloody hell we didn't even have to let anybody know what was going on and when we tell you we get sniped at, little wonder why I wanted out.

This stupid argument pales into insignificance compared to the sad events of this morning,

Martin

[admin]

Here's a thought - instead of all the sniping, how about some positive thinking?

I haven't seen one person on this thread say 'well done Phil for volunteering, we'd love to come, please put our names down, let me know if there's anything I can do to help".

Think long and hard about that!

Rhiannon

[phil]

I have a form for acces to stonehenge,but the cost is listed as £13.70 per person or £97 for educational visits.

I will phone EH today but cant post on here untill later tonight cos ive just come home from work and need to get back.

Can I also say thankyou Rhiannon and Martin for organising these visits. Ive only been once with you and thought it was great.

I felt a deep sadness on aproaching the stones,the hairs on my neck stood up ifelt a shiver down my spine and i cried.

The ritual you both did was perfect and left me feeling connected to the stones and the other people present. thankyou so much x

[admin]

Hi Phil

Religious groups, such as the druids, don't pay anything for their visits, or I think they pay one pound or something. We've always paid 50% of the admission price (or last time we just had donations) as I don't think it's fair to get free access to something that costs English Heritage money to put on.

Have a chat with EH to see what they suggest. It may be that there are other changes this year that I don't know about.

Rhiannon

[ian]

Firstly may I say that I am not and do not 'Snipe!'

I am simply telling it as I (and many others, who wont say it) am seeing it.

I have not 'Ranted,' at anyone, I have asked a couple of questions, none that have been answered by the way.

I understand that it is EH that have said that the relationship between themselves and the 'New' Pagan group from Birmgham will need to be built from fresh. This is not the point I have made, it is quite simply, why was this ever made an issue of? Why did you or whoever feel it necessary to ring EH to say that the PA had been disbanded (which I also dissagree with, as you both now!) It would have been quite a straight forward thing to have simply said that you as the representatives for the PA (not as you have said we AS the PA) no longer require the access to the stones, why not just say that someone else will be taking over the stonehenge trip this year. This way the relationship will still be intact with EH.

I dont see why the point of you pair stepping down as PA leaders has to mean that things such as this have to be started all over again!

And yes this matter does pale into insignificance with what has happened to both Jade and Noggin