Starship Pagans

[evadarkness]

OK I know I am just asking for people to give me a hard time on this but think it should be at least looked at.

Last night at the Great Western Derek was trying to make what I thought was an important point about the PA. He was trying to talk about how having a charismatic person steering the helm of any group attracts more people and action within the group.

That when the PA had charismatic people willing to step up and organise things people felt good about wanting to contribute. Events could be more easily organised because people seemed to want to attend more. New comers may have found having a strong personality to relate to until they got a chance to meet others a starting place in their own search for a group to call home.

I am not suggesting pagans need a leader as such but I cannot be the only one who looks around the moots that used to be full and are now barely attended, rituals that are not be held, social gatherings that people work very hard to arrange being attended by very few and a general lack of mutual support within this area. Some people who used to be very active have actually said to me they no longer feel it is worth the effort.

Even though we are a diverse group with many paths, is it not beneficial to have a ships captain/ess of some sort to help keep the different moots pulled together and inspire others to take those first steps, or continue to be willing to be active in the community?

Now even if by some magic spell everyone agreed with me - I do not have suggestions as to who this person/persons might be. Maybe they are someone new who will come into the circle and just naturally emerge, maybe they are a long standing person who until now has sat quitely in the corner who suddely realises they want a community enough to be willing to stand up for it.

I dont have answers, and I expect to get great put downs for even saying this - but for a while now it has seemed to me that some parts of our loose community are leaking away. If the trend continues I can easily see some moots closing and simple things like open rituals for the main points of the wheel no longer happening.Although some small groups of people who are lucky enough to have each other may be alright those of us on the fringes who rely on a wider effort may be left behind with nothing.

Have said my peice and now will hide.

[admin]

Hi Eva

Thank you for your brave post, and I will honour it by responding as forthrightly as I can, being aware of Martin's position and my relationship as his wife, which probably makes me biased and may make people perceive my words to carry more weight than they do.

I think you've hit upon one of the big problems with paganism - people want to be led but aren't willing to admit it and then there is horrible bitchcraft as everyone tries to curry favour with the perceived 'leader' and uses bitchcraft to try and get themselves a place in their own perceived hierarchy.

Try not to get too disheartened that people aren't as willing to give to the community as you are, there is nothing you can do to force them, and the community will only exist if people want it to. We are going through a time of change and uncertainty, who knows what the community will look like in 2 years?

The new PF president, John McIntyre, has seemed to be a good man on the few occasions I have met him, so I have hopes that the PF may fill the Martin-shaped-hole that the closure of the PA has left in the Birmingham community, just as the PA filled the gaps when the PF was not doing much in Brum.

(But I do think that finding someone with Martin's charm, drive, energy, tirelessness, passion, generosity, humour, faith and charisma will be a tall challenge, yes I am biased!)

Rhiannon (without her Admin hat on)

[poshfrock]

I agree with what Rhiannon has said.

If everyone is being the "perfect friendly pagan", then so am I
So I have deleted my previous wording Its so nice being wonderful

As is always the case, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As the saying goes, you don't know what you have got, until its gone.

I am not just speaking about Martin and Rhiannon, because we had some really special people among us, who were more than ready to go the extra mile and put forward ideas and were also happy to carry them though.
but like you said, when no-one gives you back up and support or you hear that you were being back stabbed by people, who would not have even tried to do stuff, its hurts.

Maybe its a learning curb. Maybe you are not looking at the wider picture. there are still quite a lot of thing which are going on and I think it is unfair to not acknowledge the people who are "doing their bit" for the community.

for example. Vicky's family moot, the pub moots and their leaders, walk and talk moot, coffee moot, All these people are doing their bit for the Birmingham pagan's.
maybe you should suggest a "beginner" ritual for next lot a sabbatts, all applying who have no experience. Maybe then those who do, will give the others courage to "have a go" and things will go from strength to strength, like you did, when you did your Yule ritual, which was very enjoyable.

A variation of the old war poster

"THINK NOT WHAT YOUR PAGAN COMMUNITY CAN DO FOR YOU!! BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR IT!!

BB Eilean x

[ian]

Have to say I agree with everything that has been said in the earlier posts and think that maybe Eva has come out and said, very well, what an awfull lot of people have been thinking for an awfull long time.

As some of you know both myself and Julie stepped completely, well almost completely, away from the Pagan community for reasons best left in the past and far too boring to go back into. However I think that the Pagan community can still be a community if, like said earlier, people start supporting things that are put on for them to enjoy, sometimes at great time and expense by the organisers.

The past needs to be left in the past for things to move on, everyone needs to forget about the, who stabbed who in the back, and the 'well they necer attended the talk that I arranged so I aint gonna attend the one that they have arranged'!

It is not easy to forget the rubbish that I feel, to a certain extent, has broken the Pagan community apart, all the bitchcraft that took place and the general sh#t that happened, but if it is not learnt from and things are not moved on at some point soon, then the remaining community will disperse and leave nothing for not only those that want the togetherness of such a group as the PA, but also for those new Pagans coming into Paganism that want and need the guidense of those around them.

A good start for supporting things would be the Imbolc meal that Derek is organising, lets all try and support it and get things, someway back, to how they were, if possible

[glyn]

Well, you all know how I feel, I've said often enough. People will dump as much crap on you as you are willing to take and soem people are all the better for being ignored!
I wish I could do more but I'm not in a position to at the moment. But most people have me e-mail addy and some my phone number so if they want to talk through ideas I'm always ready to be a listening ear.
Love to be more a part of open rituals but am in no fit state to go yomping up the Waseleys or the Lickeys!!

[sleepyowl]

I wish I was more active in the community, but unfortunately a lack of transport holds me back, I do appreciate wht is being done for the community & wish I could do more.

[evadarkness]

Part of why I hesitated so long about posting this is because I did not want it to appear that I was not appreciating those who are doing things.

Nor am I saying that all moots, or events were being unattended (as some are fairly well attended) or that there should be a 'boss' - and especially any suggestion that I knew who that boss should be.

My intention was to raise the issue that some areas of the community had changed due to lack of a focal point/person and that this for some people was not a good thing and that I was not the only person who had noticed this. Maybe - by raising the issue to get some ideas from others on how things could improve?

Going on my personal experience alone when I first came to the PA almost 7 years ago the person I connected with, and who I looked for every time I came to a meeting and who made me feel welcome and like i wanted to be there was Rhiannon.

On several occasions I took friends from school who were very interested in paganism and wanted to meet others and because the welcome extended at those particular meetings by the so called greet and meet person at that time was not only cool but bordering on rude they never returned.

In the last year several people who have been deeply giving and involved in the community said to me that they had become unwilling to do anymore because they were no longer receiving support even when putting much time and effort into events etc.

Some events and meetings may close if the present trend continues as they have been so unattended it becomes questionable if it is worth trying to put them on. What moot leader could keep coming out giving of their own time and effort and organising speakers etc if no one comes?

Personally because I know people dont like the idea of leaders I would suggest perhaps a community board. Made up of the moot leaders who meet on a regular basis they could take ideas and events from their moots to meetings so all other moots find out about them and then take back any ideas, events from the other moots to their own.

Now before all the moot leaders put my details on Christan Dating sites - I know you give your time etc for free and already are trying to be 'there' in the community. All I am suggesting is that by having some type of focal point, or place to have ideas exchange, develop etc wider events, speakers etc may happen.

In the real world few people can attend every moot. Location, transport, time, life etc are all factors that we have to live with. This way might allow people who only ever go to one moot to find out about something they really are interested in at another far enough ahead that they could try to arrange specially to be there.

Important speakers or events often need a level of funding one moot may not be able to consider, but several working together could.

Anyway, just all something I thought people might think about.
M.