Dog walking!

[Butterfly]

>:(Why can't some people keep their dogs on leads if they are a hazard!
I was walking along the tow path at the back of my house with Penny my dog. Two dogs came charging along the tow path towards me with their owner dragging his feet way behind them, when they snarled at my dog collectively, pushing her into the canal! She is an elderly dog with various serious health issues, one being a tumour, so she could really do without this! I couldn't lift her out and every time i tried, the bigger of the 2 snapped at her face, sadly to say, i punched the dog away and had to say, help me pull her up, canal banks are quite high. The ownerdid apologise and said they hadn't done anything like this before.... So!!!! It could of been me in the canal, or one of my girls! I said "Well you've had your warning now, they should be on a lead!". Home now she's had a bath, Huge cuddle, and a few treats! It has spoiled the start to what was a lovely day!

Ok it's out my system now, i just hope she hasn't caught anything from the water or me that matter, i got soaked trying to pull her out!

[amonet]

Oh I know the feeling, My ex got bit by a dog a while ago and it happend out of the blue while he was riding his bike with his mate on the way home. Luckly the leg wasn't infected.

[wyrdewood]

What gets me is the owners always say, "they never normally do that", as though it's something that you've done to make them behave that way.
A neighbour of mine had a bulldog for 10 years and one hot summers day, as he bent down to give it a bowl of water, it savaged his neck. When he (the neighbour) got out of hospital, he said the same thing. My father pointed out this was a good thing, otherwise he'd be dead. He still didn't get the point !

[kharma]

I've noticed how many 'dangerous dogs' do not have muzzles on anymore. Across the road from me there are two rotweilers, now i think they are a gorgeous dog but there is a very excitable three year old living next door. These dogs are never on leads let alone muzzles and i dread to think how they would react on a bad day to a three year old jumpin at them .

I blame the owners when dogs go bad

Jo

I hope Penny is feelin betta

[ozymandias]

Hm, time for me getting a bit of bad forum karma, but as the owner of a lovely, loving but sometimes dominantly male dog, I'd like to amend...

jo "I blame the owners when dogs go bad" - indubitably. But kids and dogs generally don't mix well, but it's not automatically the dog (or it's owner) who's to blame. Is there somebody who could teach the three-year-old how to behave around dogs? if not, who would be to blame for an attack out of the blue?
Wyrde, when owners say that their dogs normally don't do this or that, then it's because they don't. Some instinctual reactions ARE hard to anticipate, and dogs have bad days too where anything could piss them off.
amonet, I'm not going to recount the old ditty about the number of bacteria in human saliva here.
and Butterfly: It must have been a huge hassle, and protection instincts are good and proper. But Penny wasn't on a lead either, was she? And punching at unknown dogs isn't all too wise either, is it?

I have the feeling that all the previous posts were filled with resentments against dogs who acted on their instincts towards something that behaved like prey (fast bike, hyperactive child), something to assert dominance over (the bulldog's owner), or a sick member of a rival pack (butterfly). It's something I'd expect of people with less ability to identify with another species' perspective on things, but Pagans having a hard time to come to terms with natural reactions that are quite easily neuroticised (on the dog's side) in a humanocentric context? A little disappointing really.

I tend to keep my husky on a lead. Mostly to keep him safe from other dog owners.

[ursidae]

I think you'll find the resentment is more against owners of dogs who don't recognise their animal's natural instincts, and either train them to overcome them, or take steps to prevent them causing trouble.

Fair comment. Anyone who is prepared to take responsibility for an animal, should automatically accept training as a part of that

All dogs have the potential to give into pack instincts, but there is no reason why they ever should, even faced with ultimate temptation, if they are trained properly.

Just 1 word. Mistake. Every animal - even us humans - are capable of this last time I checked.

I could start a nature/nurture debate but am too tired at this point.

I'm also not sure that I would have reacted any differently to Butterfly in her case. Going anywhere near an agressive strange dog is not a good idea, but if it were me, and that strange dog was going for my Irish setter, I'd do whatever it took to get him off Callum.

Of course, "pack" or family mentality overcoming your own survival instinct.

Dogs don't just switch to bad behaviour straight away. They learn it, and they develop it bit by bit, and if the owner doesn't nip it in the bud early enough, then they are at fault, not the dog.

I grew up with a friend who had a huge rottweiler. This dog was so docile that he would curl up in your lap and watch TV with you. I even saw him letting little kids treat him like a Shetland pony and ride his back.

One day the tumour in his leg no one noticed started to hurt him, and he turned overnight into a really nasty piece of work.

Yes a lot of bad behaviour is learnt. But there mistakes and other circumstances to consider.

[Butterfly]

and Butterfly: It must have been a huge hassle, and protection instincts are good and proper. But Penny wasn't on a lead either, was she?

Even if penny had been on a lead she would of had no way of escape, these dogs shot at her from a distance at great speed, like a pack of dogs to a rabbit! All my dog did was try and run! She is a real pacafist and the other dogs were not encouraged at all!
Oh and i suppose i didn't have to punch the dog away, i could of left my penny to drown! (Tow paths don,t have ledges for escape!)
OOOh this isn't like me, sooo defensive! Penny is fine now, non the worse from her ordeal!

[amonet]

Butterfly I understand and would of done the same if I was in your place.

Don't think for one second that you was in the wrong for hitting that dog, your protecting your own.

[Butterfly]

Thanks sweetie!xx

[Butterfly]

I never forget when i was on a boating holiday with my parents, and stopping off at a shop on route, a lady had tied her dog to one of those picnic benches. Something spooked the dog and on backing up tipped the bench into the canal, the dog went in with it, and ofcourse with all attempts to rescue the poor dog, it went down with the bench! A very hard image to forget, i can tell you!

[ursidae]

Drach,

It seems strange to sound like I'm contradicting you or arguing when I'm not.

I actually agree that most dogs are NOT properly trained, and find a great deal of validity in your points.

It's just that undertraining is not the only issue. The only dog to ever bite me, did so out of sheer over excitement at not seeing me for about 3 weeks. I know for a fact that dog had not bit anyone prior to me and didn't for the rest of it's life. For the record it was a little Scot's Terrier as well....hardly a viscious breed.

And yes most dogs give you a lot of cue's before attacking.

However to drop everything at either the dog's paws or the owner's handling does not account for a wide range of factors that can explain their behaviour.

It is easy to oversimplify, which leads to generalisations and the errors they contain.

I am not saying what happened to Butterfly and Penny can be justified....Merely that perhaps it can be explained and that it may be down to any number of things including dog temperament or owner handling...but these are not the only possible explanations.

It's exactly the same as I wouldn't really justify Butterfly putting herself at risk defending Penny by punching the other dogs, but I know it's exactly what I'd do in the same situation.

It doesn't make sense when you think it through - you're endangering yourself, and potentially making the situation worse (especially if the other owner doesn't understand), but it makes perfect sense on an emotional level and is an instinctive response.

There is a part of me that wonders with all the fuss over aggressive dogs generally if we aren't acually just reaping the rewards of domesticating what is essentially a wild animal - but thats a different debate.

[amonet]

And to carry your point on uridae a wild aniaml is only wild with a person(s) point of view. Don't forget humans was once the most aggressive animal in the known world, but no longer on top of the food chain.

[wyrdewood]

When you say once, I think you mean still are.

[Geist3]

no longer on top of the food chain

Humans still are at the top of the food chain. Unless your on about vegans, who are somewhere alongside photosynthesising plankton

[admin]

I think whether humans are top of the food chain is a whole other discussion. I know I wouldn't fancy my chances much in the middle of the jungle/sahara with no tools or equipment!

I've already accepted I'll probably end up one of those mad old ladies who ends up getting eaten by her cats