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Post by ian on May 25, 2007 20:54:26 GMT 1
I have to express how annoyed i was on my visit down to London, having paid the extortionate price off £5.10 each to use the underground to travel about 10 mile, i then found out that there is virtually no disabled access to most of the underground stations, so we were left with the choice of going down a huge escalator (that you felt you would do better with a rope and a grappling hook) and when you are with someone that has a terrible phobia about escalators, it does not help or the easy option of 110 steps down, then two flights of steps up, them another flight of steps down in order to get to the platform, now i am fortunate in that i do not have to use a wheel chair most of the time, but how the hell would you manage if you were dependant of a chair, there is no way that you could use the underground. Now i am not completely stupid and i do realise that the underground is more than just a few years old and that when it was built they were probably not to up on the problems of disabled people, but come on by the 21st century you would have though that something could have been done about it, even the platforms, i found out, are a different level to the actual trains making it impossible to wheel a chair on, or for that matter a pushchair, so there is another one i could bang on about, what about mothers trying to use it? And the government are trying to encourage us all to use public transport, i think not!!!
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Post by admin on May 25, 2007 20:59:55 GMT 1
Yup - the underground is horrible, crowded, dirty and very hot. It's bad enough for able-bodied people, I can't imagine the hell it is for those who aren't feeling 110%.
bb Rhiannon
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Post by ian on May 25, 2007 21:06:26 GMT 1
Oh blimey yeah i had completely forgot about the heat, i think that was probably due to the fact that my legs were absolutely killing me and i was oh so much looking forward to the drive back home.
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Post by brumwolf on May 26, 2007 12:22:27 GMT 1
Can I upset everyone and say I actualy like the underground, I duno if its because the smell and heat of the place is so ingrained with some very pleasurable times of my life that I just ignore the short comings.
I do think its a bit unfair to blast it for its limited disabled person access. It was built by the Victorians and its only been in a relativly short space of time that access for everyone has been a requirement.
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Post by kharma on May 26, 2007 15:43:35 GMT 1
I found it quite funny when i went on the underground as i got on in the wrong direction but some helpful local whilst trying to chat me up informed me quite early on in my journey...or i'd of ended up god knows where jo
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Post by ian on May 27, 2007 19:04:02 GMT 1
Actually i do find myself having to agree with Wolf, (to a certain degree), in that too be honest i used to enjoy the tube, whenever i went down to London (which to be honest, wasn't often), i used to love the tube, the huge elevators, the endless tunnels between different lines, the heat (not sure about the smell!). But i think that obviously i tend to look at things in a completely different way nowadays, and to be honest it is not until you are in the position that it makes a real difference to you that you actually realise its short comings. I do feel however that they (whoever it is that is responsible for the tube network) have had more than enough time to make more of it 'disabled/parent friendly', because lets not forget it is not just wheelchair users and disabled people that have considerable problems with using the network, but also parents with prams and / or small children, lets face it, if it were something other than such a huge network that runs it, the powers that be would have been stamping their feet up and down for some time now, wanting to know why it had not been brought up to date
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Post by brumwolf on May 28, 2007 22:26:37 GMT 1
Ok lets turn this around a little. This is a very none PC post. Sorry, but someone has to point out a few things which need to be considered before the protests against the underground start in ernest.
1. Its a requirement for lifts to go to their lowest level and for the doors to open. There is only 1 building in the country which is exempt. So, how do you get those who have to use a life to get anywhere on the tube out in an emergancy which does not put others at greater risk?
2. The air down in the tubes is, how shall we say, carbon rich? Do you think thats healthy for a small child?
3. The crowds, how easy is it to get seperated from a small child in the rabbit warran that is the tube? Let alone where there are people pushing their way to get in or out.
4. The ventilation in the tube is "created" by the movement of the trains. When the train stop, the air stops. Its not a healthy place to by when the trains aint moving for an adult let alone a child. I would argue that this point is a greater priority in terms of resolution.
Over the last few years one of the great British icons has bit the dust because of the requirement to provide accessable transport for those in wheelchairs, with push chairs/prams and so on, namly the Bus Master. Alot of money has been pumped into the new buses to make them fast, reliable and accessable so the argument that the powers that be are doing nothing does not hold water.
The fact is London does have a fairly well intergrated transport system, one mode of transport cannot and never will fit all, that has to be accepted. So alternatives are available.
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Post by brumwolf on May 28, 2007 22:41:51 GMT 1
I found this on the net, it might provide some help.
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Post by brumwolf on May 28, 2007 22:43:59 GMT 1
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Post by brumwolf on May 29, 2007 15:29:46 GMT 1
There is a fundamental difference between a building thats above ground and one which goes deep bellow the ground. The options on how to get someone out of danger is vastly reduced. For a start, the option of removing the person via a window is not an option, for example.
As for the building, its the BT tower, it required an act of Parliment to allow the lifts to be used to evacuate the building in an emergancy.
I think my point about the ventilation of the tube and the trains themselves was either miss understood or I was not clear in my meaning. Its the movement of the tube trains which forces fresh air through the system. In the event of an emergancy, the trains stop. Without fresh air entering the system and heated air being forced out, the temperature rises, the amount of oxygen drops and so on. At the hight of summer that can be a very dangious situation, one which London Underground have recognised as being something which potencialy could cause the loss of life. So worried about this issue they opened up sugestions to the public to try and find a way to resolve the problem. So far no one has come up with an idea which would either work or would cost so much as to bankroupt the company.
Children are more suseptable to the effects of heat, I'm fairly sure I'm teaching granny to suck eggs with that statement, but its something which has to be made. An enclused space, with no fresh air, people potencialy panicing, no access to liquids and with the general conditions detirorating, thats not a good mix.
The point is, while the trains are working and there is no problems, the conditions are manageable, but I'm talking about a situation which is not within the normal paramiters.
Regarding the point of children in push chairs at car exhust level, point taken, but I would counter that in such situations the gases produced by the car are more diluted because they are outside rather then in an enclused, underground space. I also note that the article is looking at the health effects on an adult not a small child.
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Post by brumwolf on May 29, 2007 15:34:11 GMT 1
Please don't get me wrong. The failings of the tube sustem are there for all to see and revel in, but, as the old saying goes, Rome was not built in a day. The system has had decades of under investment and it faces problems which are quite unique compared to others. Long term I would be great to resolve the gripes which exist, but for a fraction of the cost to fix these problems alternatives can be made and have been made. I guess I'm looking at this from a cost and benifit point of view rather then a utopian view of the future. P.S. Cable tieing children to chairs.... hummmmmmmmmmmmmm One way to keeping the littke darlings still
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